Abuse in Warriors [+content warning]

[turtletail]

not quite sure how to add a content warning, so if it being in the title isn't enough Sparrow could u please add one? c:

anyway~ the Warriors series has a lot of instances of abuse. course, as a kid, i didn't notice but when i started to go back through the books with a fresher, more critical eye, the amount of abuse and just plain garbage treatment some of these cats go through is really ugly and sad.

Crowfeather + Breezepelt + Nightcloud

these three are a good place to start, i suppose. Crowfeather takes Nightcloud as his mate to "prove his loyalty" (i hate that line, god) to Windclan and they have Breezepelt. Crowfeather doesn't very much care for Breezepelt, which leads Nightcloud to smother her son to make up for Crowfeather ignoring him (which isn't good parenting, either, but can you blame her?). Nightcloud seems to care for Crowfeather, whilst Crowfeather... is still hung up on Leafpool, even they both agreed to go back to their clans. Crowfeather sucks, tbh. he's awful to just about everyone. 

Pinestar + Leopardfoot 

hoo boy, these two. Pinestar's a leader when Leopard's a 'paw, and soon after she becomes a warrior, they mate. Warriors has a lot of older tom gets with younger molly, and it's always creepy and gross. now, perhaps in a more realistic series, this might not be /such/ a big deal - mollies tend to go for the strongest toms to ensure their kits will be strong too - but Warriors is a fantasy series, written by people, so they /had/ to know that this would be a power imbalance. Either way, Pinestar isn't even interested in Leopardfoot! He doesn't pay very much attention to her, when she's giving birth she calls for him, and he doesn't go over, and /then/ he leaves her and Tigerkit! and he's just a bad leader in general, but that's for another thread. 

Bramblestar + Squirrelflight (and Ashfur on the side)
Another older tom gets with younger molly. Brambleclaw and Squirrelpaw fall in love on the journey to the Sun-drown place and again when they reach the Lake Territories. It seems all's going to go well... until Brambleclaw begins to spend time with Hawkfrost, and turns around and becomes a class A Jerk to Squirrelflight. She seeks solace in Ashfur (who's her uncle...) and Ashfur seems to care about her, even though he does try to step in and talk for her. She breaks it off with Ashfur and she and Brambleclaw foster Holly, Lion and Jay. When it's revealed the three aren't really their kits, Brambleclaw ceases communication with Squirrelflight (seriously, how is this her fault???) and goes back to acting like a Class A Jerk. And then there's that whole bit in Bramblestar's Storm, where he starts to fall for Jessy, and seems to be replacing Squirrelflight...

i could be here forever, talking about so many pairs and how much they suck, but that's where everyone else can come in, if you wish! \o feel free to talk about the three i mentioned here, or any other awful Warriors pairings you noticed were bad while reading the series. gimme some thoughts, my peeps. 

[Bittycat]

Oh, boy, let's see what I can add to this.

1. Nightcloud's birth was horrific. She originally had a litter of 4 babies, and they were premies I think. Guess who didn't show up during this traumatic birth? Crowfeather. And then three out of four babies died of weakness. Guess who didn't bring prey for the weak mother, or mourn the kittens? Crowfeather. Yep. He's awful.

2. Moonflower x Stormtail WHAT? Moonkit was 4 moons old when Stormtail was a Warrior - and she asked Goosekit if "she could still talk to Stormtail if she was a kit and he was a warrior." Now, youthful crushes isn't the worst problem in the world - as long as they aren't encouraged. But instead of gently telling her that this relationship was inappropriate, Stormtail PLAYED ALONG AND BECAME HER MATE WHAAAAAAAAAT IM PRETTY SURE THIS IS PEDOPHELIAAAAAAA

3. Bluestar x Oakheart. Okay but like?? what?? Bluefur was the actual worst mate ever. She abused Oakheart AND her babies, holy diggity. First she denied Oakheart even visitation with his babies, and didn't allow him to come into ThunderClan and help raise HIS KITS. Then, she drags all of her babies through the snow, KILLS ONE OF THEM, and then abandons them in the Clan that hates her. Gr8.

4. Graystripe and literally everyone:
a. Graystripe only loves Silverstream for her looks. Their "love" is really just a fling.
b. Graystripe favors Feathertail over Stormfur because she looks like Silverstream.
c. When Feathertail dies, Graystripe BLAMES HIS SON and doesn't try to help him through the traumatic event of watching his own sister die.
d. When he gains his new mate, she looks exactly like Silverstream, which raises the question of if he ever minded her personality.
e. When Millie has kits, Graystripe doesn't pay much mind - doesn't play with them, doesn't visit, nothing.
f. When Briarkit(paw?) breaks her SPINE and Millie is HAVING A PANIC ATTACK, he doesn't do much of anything.
g. When Millie starts ignoring her other three kits in favor of Briarlight, he doesn't even care.
h. When Blossomfall gets injured in the tunnels and Millie is screaming at her, he doesn't even notice or give a rat's whikers.

GRAYSTRIPE IS AWFUL.

So there's my leaf on things >8/

[Foxthroat]

I'm so glad you brought this up, because this is an issue in-canon that is horrifically appalling with the level of perpetuation and 'ok'-ness that Erin Hunter conveys about it. You've both got really great ones here-- Greystripe is one that is often overlooked, so I'm glad I'm not the only one who dislikes him for his neglectfulness and shallow behavior towards his mates and kits.

I have a couple more to add onto this:

Millie:

I've always held intense dislike for Millie. On the one hand, she's tough for trooping out into the wild and sticking it as a warrior instead of just staying at her house. On the other hand, she treats her kits pretty appallingly.

Once Briarpaw breaks her spine, she becomes pretty much the only kit Millie notices. Now, I can quite understand her concern for her daughter; the situation is very serious and she does need extra reassurance and support. I've had personal experience with being both the 'ok' kid with a special needs sibling and the 'special needs kid' myself. So, I get her perspective as a mom, to some degree-- her concern is understandable and empathetic, but her actions are not.

She basically wholly neglects her other two kits, and helicopter parents Briarlight. While she's smothering one kit with affection (and Greystripe does literally /nothing/), one kit just fades into the background (Bumblestripe) while the other becomes bitter and angry and ends up turning to the Dark Forest for acceptance and attention (Blossomfall).

I can't recall any specific instances of Millie vs Bumblestripe, but Millie comes down on Blossomfall pretty shockingly when she /gets injured/, and Millie basically tells her to screw off, Briarlight is more important.

And while I do believe her actions are commented on a tad, pretty much no one seems to care or call her out on it-- and of course Greystripe really does nothing with them at all.

Palebird-Sandgorse-Tallstar:

Palebird I believe was intended to have some sort of postpartum depression, and her grief is understandable considering she lost a kit right after birth. However, she pretty much pays no attention to Tallkit, and is super-mopey until she gets Woollytail as a new mate and has more kits and then she's all better.

Sandgorse is worse, being rather emotionally abusive towards Tallpaw in trying to continually force him and Heatherstar to make Tallpaw into a tunneler instead of a moor runner-- despite the fact that his kit is clearly very frightened of the tunnels and doesn't have any interest in it at all! He falls into the cliche category of dads (they're almost always dads) who are the 'well done son' type, who want their kit to be just like them and fulfill all their expectations, even when said kit really doesn't want to, and is very unhappy with the idea.

Rainflower-Shellheart-Crookedkit:

This is probably the most blatant and appalling one I can think of (apart from Crowfeather-Nightcloud-Breezepelt). Rainflower emotionally and mentally abuses and neglects her son, somehow coerces the /clan leader/ into going along with this and forcing a name-change on her kit, continually plays favorites with her kits (before the accident Stormkit's her favorite, afterwards Oakkit is), forces him to sleep alone so creates physical neglect, shames him and belittles him, on and on and on.

And no one calls her out! Not the leader, the deputy, the medicine cat, a random warrior, the other queens in the nursery-- Shellheart /does/ call her out, but his actions basically are 'divorce mate but still love her oh so much, and leave her to still run rampant over the kits!'.

Then, when Crookedjaw indirectly lets Rainflower die (about time!), the narration and his brother call him out on it and make him feel so guilty and ashamed despite the fact that his mother abused him to the point he ran away from the clan and has been ashamed and miserable a good part of his life.

Rainflower later doesn't even have the decency to turn up at Crookedstar's nine-lives ceremony.

Lizardstripe-Brokenkit:

This is another one I can't beleive flies. Lizardstripe is clearly a jerk from the get-go, and she abuses pretty much /all/ of her kits /along with/ Brokenkit, and her birth kits taunt and pick on Brokenkit (Yellowfang does step in with that and put a stop to it, sort of). Yet again, no one really does anything or even seems to notice this apart from Yellowfang. Raggedstar never makes Lizardstripe stop abusing his son, and I'm pretty sure Yellowfang's excuse runs something along the lines of 'if I act like I care too much they'll know it's my kit'.

Hello? You're a healer! You are tasked with the wellbeing of the clan-- it is your /duty/ to step in, regardless of /whose/ kit it is, and stop that immediately!

Continuing on a vein with Brokenkit, Raggedstar still remains utterly blind to /his own/ abusive tendencies towards his apprentices and the other warriors when he's a warrior and later deputy.

Tigerstar-Sasha:

I have to say, for this being the romance that Tiger 'really loved', he reads like a stereotypical abuser. He starts off friendly and charming and hooks Sasha in, almost convinces her to join, and once she finds out what he's really like, turns to insulting and threatening her and then basically ditches her to give birth and raise her kits alone.


Glad to get these off my chest.

[Bittycat]

Okay, okay, hold on a minute. I'll put this under a spoiler tag because this is long and I feel very. very strongly about Palebird's situation.

Very strongly.

You have been warned.

SPOILER: Click to show

Postpartum depression is NOT something that just "goes away with time," a person needs to be pulled out of it or given medication to get them out of their hole. My friends/family know people who committed suicide because they didn't want to come home to their infant, or people who had an actual mental breakdown in the hospital the day of their child's birth, or literally ran away in the middle of the night because they couldn't stand being in the same home as their child.

Palebird is of the persuasion where she simply can't do anything. She can't take care of herself or her kit, because her brain simply shut down after the birth of her litter. With Finchkit's death coming at the exact same time, this only piles on top of it, and so she has gotten to the point where she's a husk of a cat, and even lifting her head is a massive feat.

I really just can't stand when people put Palebird in the "abusive parent" category. Sure, she wasn't the best mother - but why blame the victim of a horrible mental illness and the DEATH of her CHILD? What would she have to do to prove she was mentally ill and could not take care of herself/her child?

The "issue" with Woolytail is honestly great for Palebird. Note how Sandgorse DOES NOT CARE about Palebird's depression. He cares about Tallkit being in his pawsteps. Not his ailing mate who can't drag herself to the freshkill pile without assistance.
Woolytail actually cared about Palebird and her new litter. He was caring. He minded. He showed her emotional compassion, and he loved her! If Sandgorse had been half the father/friend/mate Woolytail was, Palebird would not have been in such an awful state and may have recovered and taken a bigger part in Tallkit's life.

I think the Woolytail thing is purely because of the narrator - Talltail. He still thinks Sandgorse was murdered, and so Palebird is obviously cheating on him, and not recovering from a debilitating mental illness that could have killed her and made her unhappy in StarClan. Talltail sees everything through Negativity Glasses, so Woolytail is obviously a bad person for helping his mother get out of a horrific hole that Sandgorse didn't care to touch.

Sorry. I just had to get on a soapbox for a moment. I feel very strongly about this.

[turtletail]

got a few more

Dustpelt + Ferncloud

while they seemed to care about each other a lot, this relationships skeeves me out. Dustpelt was a warrior when Fernpaw was an apprentice. He took over mentoring her, and that's when they began to have feelings for each other (In Darkest Hour, i believe it was). It's just... ugh. It sucks.

Feathertail + Crowpaw

putting it here, b/c this is one of the very few rare instances where we see a molly fall for a younger tom. Funnily enough, Stormfur calls her out on it and Feathertail responds with 'oh, well, the clans will be together soon (journey to the new home) and how can our love do any harm'? which is flippin' hilarious, cause, uh hello??? did u remember how u and ur brother were almost killed b/c you were half-clan?? and Graystripe /and/ Silverstream said the same thing about their 'relationship' and look how that turned out!

Firepaw + Spottedleaf

while these two never got into an actual relationship (thank god), Spottedleaf is constantly constantly referred to as a special person in Firestar's life, and at one point, she has to tell him that he already has a mate - Sandstorm!! how sad is that?? and then there's the whole 'oh i'll wait for u in Starclan uwu' and 'we could've had something in another life uwu' and her scent is always described as sweet, etc. when she dies, Firepaw says 'goodbye, my dear Spottedleaf' or something like that, and it's like, dude. Firepaw, dude, you're an apprentice, she's a medicine cat and you barely know each other! you spent what, one day in her den (to get mouse bile) and that was it! you barely interacted with her and you want to pretend you had a relationship with her?? ugh, god, i hate this one. no wonder Leafpool ran off with Crowfeather - she listened to Spottedleaf.

[Honeystorm]

About Spottedleaf, she's much older than Firestar. Greystripe (then Greypaw) said that she was "young and pretty" but she's much older than Darkstripe, who Greypaw was comparing her to. In fact, she's about the same age as Redtail and was an apprentice at Bluestar's (then Bluefur) kitting. The age gap between Firestar and Spottedleaf is also weird. Also, she was killed off so that Firestar didn't have to choose between her and Sandstorm but he still loves her, so what went wrong there?

[dreamweaver]

Alright, most of these I would agree with, and up til a few days, I would agree with all of them. However I had the chance to come by this very interesting post the other day:

Millie is not an awful mother as people say she is. Now, I'm not saying Millie is the greatest parent, but she certainly isn't all that bad compared to others like Rainflower or Sandgorse. I know a lot of people don't like Millie because of what she's done to Blossomfall, but I am rather neutral on this situation between the two. I don't really care for it, it was clearly there just to add extra drama for the series. However, I'll still say my opinion on this situation between Blossomfall and Millie.


Firstly, people dislike Millie because she kept her name.. really? Think of it like this: Millie has had this name ever since she was born. It is a part of her, and there's nothing in the warrior code that says you can't have a kittypet name. All it's asking you is to be a loyal warrior to your Clan and Millie is already loyal to ThunderClan. There's nothing wrong with keeping her name. Plenty of other cats like Boulder and Egg kept their names and I don't see anyone yelling at them for rejecting their warrior name. Millie's name is a part of her, it's who she is, and she stood up for herself when she wanted to keep it. Besides, she wasn't even that rude about it. She just told Firestar why she wanted to keep her name and he respected that:


"I'm privileged to be considered a ThunderClan warrior," she meowed. "I could ask for no greater honor. And I am grateful to Graystripe for rescuing me from my life as a kittypet." She blinked warmly at her mate. "If I'd stayed my whole life as a Twoleg companion, it would have been only half a life. But-"



Graystripe stepped forward. "Millie?" His eyes were clouded with anxiety. "You're not going to leave, are you?"



"Never." Millie padded toward him and brushed her muzzle against his. Then she turned back to Firestar. "You can rely on my loyalty until the day I join StarClan, and you must believe that I will live and die to protect ThunderClan. But I don't want to change my name. I have always been Millie, ad I see no shame in it. - Dark River, page 86


And she has every right to feel no shame for keeping her name. Besides, plenty of other cats interrupted Firestar during a Clan meeting once. Millie is not the first. She wasn't even that bad. She stood up for herself, and that's pretty brave considering she's just a regular warrior for the Clan and quite unpopular because she was born a kittypet.


Millie is not a replacement, either. It just happened to be a coincidence that she looks like Silverstream. Vicky promised one of her co-workers that their cat will be a character in the Warriors series:


"Question: Is Millie silver with blue eyes (as in the books) or is she tan coloured with yellow eyes (as in the manga)?



Answer: VickyHolmes: She's silver with blue eyes, as she's based on a real cat belonging to one of my co-workers, James. He's a huge fan of Millwall Football Club, which is based in London. So Millie's real name is Millwall!" - Erin Hunter Chat 4


Millie is a good cat and she sacrificed so much for her Clan and for Graystripe. Millie brought Graystripe back home from his kittypet life and mentally saved him. She gave him hope. And it was Graystripe who first told Millie about his feelings for her, not Millie herself:


Graystripe: I've been trying to figure out how to say this.. or when to say this.. for days now. But I couldn't have made it here without you. You saved my life, but.. more than that. You saved my soul. You found me when I was lost, and you brought me back to who I really was. I've already said I want you to join ThunderClan with me, but I need you to know how I feel... and I hope you'll feel the same way. Millie.. i want you to stand by my side.. as my mate. - The Lost Warrior, B3, pg. 86-87



There is nothing wrong with moving on. Graystripe spent years grieving over Silverstream. And Silverstream approved of it. She didn't even want Millie to die when she had greencough. This shows that Silverstream was okay with their relationship together and she simply wanted Graystripe to be happy:


"Millie is close to joining us," she [Silverstream] murmured. "What can we do? Graystripe doesn't deserve to have his heart broken again." - Long Shadows, pg. 144


I don't think Millie should be hated on for being Graystripe's new mate or being the "replacement" of Silverstream. And it's not fair to judge whether Silverstream is a better mother or not - Silverstream died just after she gave birth. She never really had a chance to raise Feathertail or Stormfur. How can you say that Silverstream would have been a better mother? She was only shown with Feathertail once in StarClan. Silverstream is a fine character, but I don't think it's fair to compare her to Millie.





Millie isn't the greatest mother. But she really isn't as bad as people say she is. And she was shown to care for Blossomfall as an apprentice, before the accident:





Millie jumped out of the ferns, her eyes darting from Squirrelflight to Blossompaw.



Blossompaw was limping slightly. The gray warrior darted to her daughter's side. "Are you okay?" She sniffed at Blossompaw's leg.



"It's fine," Blossompaw assured her. "I just landed awkwardly."



"What were you doing?"



Blossompaw hung her head. "I wanted to know what it was like to sit in the Great Oak. Squirrelflight made me jump by shouting at me and I fell out."



Millie shot an angry glance at Squirrelflight. "There was no need to frighten her! She could have hurt herself badly." - Fading Echoes, pg. 103-104



I would also like to remind everyone that Blossomfall joined the Dark Forest before Millie yelled at her:


"This is Blossomfall of ThunderClan," Brokenstar went on. "Some of you know her already. Blossomfall, these are your new Clanmates." - SotM, pg. 131


"Where have you been?" Millie snapped. "You've wasted a whole morning when you could have been hunting!" Glancing back at Briarlight, who was struggling to join the group at the fresh-kill pile, she added, "Your sister would give anything to be able to help feed the Clan! It's time you grew up, Blossomfall, and started to behave like a proper warrior." - SotM, pg. 255


What makes the situation worse is that Blossomfall knew that the Dark Forest is a place where bad cats go. Now, I'm glad she confessed that she knows it's wrong to be jealous of her crippled sister, and I do feel sympathy for her. But she was so jealous of Briarlight that the Dark Forest warriors took advantage of this, and decided to use it to try to make her betray the Clans. She knew that this place was bad. But she continued to go there because she wanted attention.


"I'm not stupid. I know it's where cats go if they're not allowed into StarClan." - SotM, pg. 246


Briarlight nearly died more than once. It's no wonder that Millie completely freaked out. She wants to spend as much time as she can with her daughter. Now, I am not justifying Millie's actions: They are wrong, but she only yelled at Blossomfall that one time, and it instantly makes Millie a terrible mother. No. It's called tough love. Millie's children have been raised spoiled (which is Millie's own fault) and Blossomfall should grow up because she's a full grown warrior. Now, Blossomfall does have every right to want her mother's attention. This doesn't mean that she doesn't need her mother anymore. Everyone needs their mother. But Blossomfall didn't handle the situation the right way - not that Millie handled it any better, either, but Blossomfall needs to try to move on from her life. She's been shown as very clingy with her family, and it's time she became an independent character who doesn't need her mother anymore.





Because of Briarlight's accident, Millie even began to lose faith in StarClan.


"Faith?" she [Millie] hissed. "If your warrior ancestors are so powerful, why don't they cure her? If this happened in my old home, my housefolk would have fixed her."



"Millie?" Graystripe's shocked whisper sounded from the entrance as he padded into the clearing. "Is that what you really think?"



Millie backed away. "I don't know what to think," she rasped. "I only see my kit, broken and helpless, struggling through each day, with death stalking her like a fox..." - Night Whispers, pg. 97




Millie's reaction about this is natural. Would you rather Millie didn't spend any time with Briarlight? And besides, if Briarlight wanted Millie to go away, she should have told Millie to back off and give her some space.



Millie had faith in StarClan until Briarlight broke her spine. But can you really blame her? Millie sacrificed everything for StarClan, ThunderClan, and for Graystripe, and this happens to her. Blossomfall is in the Dark Forest, and Briarlight had broken her spine. Briarlight is fighting every single day to survive. If she doesn't exercise, she will die. This is why Jayfeather wants her to exercise every day, to keep up her strength, so Briarlight can be strong.



And I do not think Millie is useless... and besides, just like many of the other characters, she's been thrown into the background. But she has done things for her Clan:


In TFW, she was shown leading a patrol

She helped fight against the Dark Forest in TLH

She helped Minty feel comfortable in the Clan in BrS

She helped Ivypaw[pool] become a warrior in Fading Echoes


And Millie is shown to appreciate her Clan, despite what happened to Briarlight:


"I wouldn't change a thing. Except that I wish that my daughter Briarlight hadn't been injured. I'll never leave ThunderClan, but I'll never forget that there's another way to live, either." - Bramblestar's Storm


She even said she was worried when Bramblestar and the others went missing in BrS:


"Are you two mouse-brained?" Millie demanded as she shot across the clearing. "Do you know how worried we've been? Do you care?" - BrS, pg. 366

By Shaded-Velvet on deviantart. Used with Permission.

This thought-provoking, and well-sourced post gives us potentially another look at Millie. I see this she-cat as someone who deeply loves her mate and gives up her life to travel with him back to the clans, in doing so, she gives up every part of herself. Yet when she asks to keep the single remaining part of her identity that she claims as hers, she is ridiculed. As everyone has said before, names in the warriors are important. Perhaps Millie is bringing on pain for herself and not fully integrating into the clan by not taking a warrior name... but its hard to even imagine being asked to change the name that has been yours for all your life, the last vestige of your history.

As for everything else, the writer of the post explains well.

I think it is really important to take into account how characters are written by the Erins, there may be a kernel of a good character in there, and perhaps instead of just completely destroying every character that exists, maybe we can instead try and see how certain characters may actually have had better potential. Especially when it comes to drama, yes, there are horrible examples of actual verbal, emotional abuse, with Rainflower and Lizardstripe. But a few words said in anger and  less attention to some of your children because the other is disabled for life and could potentially die any day, is not abuse in my understanding.

Personally I see abuse as a very serious thing, and looking at Millie and her past, I don't see her as abusive. I have a very very close friend who is a victim of emotional abuse, and it is very different from what I see here. Maybe Millie becomes obsessive over Briarlight, yes, but I don't think she is abusing her other children in the process. Abuse is a strong word, and in this case I don't think it should be used lightly.

Also I greatly encourage everyone when writing to make sure that arguments are coherent and backed by cannon. If that means some research into actual quotes to prove your point, your argument will always hold more weight than someone who is simply stating an opinion without a basis with which to stand on.

I hope this makes sense and isn't too aggressive ^^;

[Emberwind]

Pretty sure Nightcloud only became mates with Crowfeather because she wanted kits. Probably shouldn't have done that as most of the died and the only saving kit was one of the worst characters in warriors.

[Ariento/Pinepaw]

Dec 16, 2016 15:48:38 GMT -6 Emberwind said:

Pretty sure Nightcloud only became mates with Crowfeather because she wanted kits. Probably shouldn't have done that as most of the died and the only saving kit was one of the worst characters in warriors.

I feel like you're unfairly blaming Nightcloud here.

Crowfeather approached her, not the other way around. Yes, she wanted kits and knew she would soon be too old to have any. But she did genuinely like him, and thought that he might fall in love with her. Instead, he resented and ignored her and their only kit.

She coddled and spoiled Breezepelt. Not the best parenting, but at least she actually raised him and cared about him, which is more than you can say about Crowfeather.

Of course, typical of the Erins, she's demonized and Crowfeather's treated like the best thing since sliced bread. Typical of our culture in general, really ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Emberwind]

Not really blaming her but in my personal opinion I don't think she loved Crowfeather and was probably not a great mother to Breezepelt.

[spottedfur]

Ah! I'm so glad all
of these were pointed out! I know that in the world of felines all of this could be explained and justified, but under these circumstances it's hard to not be bothered by any of it. The age gaps i noticed bothered me the most I think.

and about Lizardstripe... was there not a part when she said something along the lines of "I never wanted these kits"... excuse me?! I don't dare mentioned what that could've meant! O_e

and I'm glad someone pointed out how Crookedjaw was shunned when his mother died. That SERIOUSLY rubbed me the wrong way! It completely changed my opinion of Oakheart! I'm sorry but that's just not okay! He saw what their mother was doing to him! He knew he was going through a hard time just because of his jaw... True Oak-kit supported him a lot but I think he could've done more... but I was able to forgive him there because as a kit what could he say to his mother? Besides he was getting the attention he never had before. Yet when he was a warrior... when he turned on his own brother the way he did! Just- URG! Crookedjaw lost a mother too, ya frogbrain! Could you have made him feel any more alone?! And then Oakheart has the nerve, the AUDACITY, to call Crookedstar out for not being a good father. EXCUSE ME?! I realize he probably needed the wake up call and that fight, but SERIOUSLY?! Crookedstar went through A LOT! His reluctance to get close to his daughter was perfectly understandable! Especially when there were so few cats by his side to help him through his loses! (I'm freakin' about ready to cry, just thinking about what the poor tom had to go through!) Not cool Oakheart! Not cool!

speaking of that book... what about that tom who cast Mapleshade aside the way he did? The sort of betrayal and suffering she went through... I don't think she was a bad cat, at least not the same way that Thistleclaw was.